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Wilson ORMapper Forums Wilson ORMapper Forums : General Support : Open Source Wilson ORMapper

Date Post
9/7/2007 2:58:52 PM

I'm going to be changing the ORMapper to open source very soon and I wanted to make sure that everyone that has paid understands.  First, the intent of my subscription was never to have a commercial product that would require updates and support forever.  Many of you may even remember that I started back in 2002 with a simple website that featured page templates and best practices.  In my pursuit of learning and trying things out things I added more features, like multiple forms, localization, master pages, and more.  And then I became interested in O/R Mapping and at the time very few options were available for .NET, but MS was planning ObjectSpaces.  Had something like NHibernate existed at that time then I most likely would never have went down this path, but it simply did not exist yet.  So I made my own simple ORMapper and gradually added more features -- all for my own use initially, hoping to move to ObjectSpaces at a later time.  Well ObjectSpaces was dropped, and enough people loved my ORMapper that it took on a life of its own, even after NHibernate due to the simplicity.  But the cold hard facts are that I have simply been unable to find the time for far too long to continue updating and supporting the ORMapper.  For the most part that hasn't been a huge deal since the ORMapper has been feature rich enough for the vast majority of users for some time now.  Its also been extremely stable for the vast majority of users, although there is a "zombie" issue that a small minority of users have faced.  There is also a user submitted patch for that which I have yet to officially apply since I have never been able to reliably reproduce the issue.  So since users have long contributed back, and have apparently fixed this bug also, it really makes sense to just make this open source given my lack of time.  Its also worth pointing out that Linq to Sql is just around the corner, and while it certainly isn't perfect, it is nonetheless probably good enough for me.  And that means that it will become one of my main priorities when I do find time, already absorbing the little bit I have found, and that's not fair to the ORMapper.  Also, in the spirit of my original intent, I want to use my time to continue learning and trying out new things, and that runs counter to more time on the ORMapper.  So while some of you may feel you've now paid unnecessarily, my hope is that I will be able to do something else cool that you will get access to as subscribers.  Very much like my original subscribers paid for page templates and eventually got a free ORMapper, you will at some point find more things on my site if I move on.  For instance, I'd like to radically revise my portal framework to feature Linq to Sql and more, which will focus on best practices you can use even if you could care less about the portal itself.  Of course that depends on me finding enough time, but I'm more likely to find time to do something totally new since I have to learn and try out these new things anyhow.  So to finish this email before I go on longer, look for an announcement from myself and Brian DeMarzo in the coming days or weeks about the ORMapper being open source.

Thanks, Paul Wilson

9/8/2007 1:34:15 AM Hey, Paul. I think going open source with ORMapper is a great idea!  I completely understand your desire to focus on new development, and I'm sure most developers would agree.  ORMapper has always been far more valuable than the paltry $50 subscription fee, and it has saved me countless hours of development.  I can't imagine anyone who has really used the ORMapper having complaints or feeling short-changed with you going open source.  You've contributed a great deal to the .NET community.  I hope that you have been and will be well-rewarded.

David Neal
www.christianasp.net
9/8/2007 1:34:26 AM I'm a subscriber, and personally, I think that this is a great move. To me, the ORMapper for $50 is a steal. It has saved me so much development time that I would have been happy to have paid $1000 or more for it (I bet you're kicking yourself now ;).

Thanks again for such a great product!

Tim
9/8/2007 4:16:22 PM

Thanks, Paul, for everything you've done with your O/R mapper over the years. I'm sure I speak for the community when I say that we'll do our best to continue its success in your name!

The Google project is set up: http://code.google.com/p/wilsonormapper/

I haven't checked in any code yet, but I expect to over the weekend. It will be the 4.2.2.0 release with only some minor changes to reflect the move to open source (i.e. new license headers, removal of the DEMO license restrictions, and other things) -- nothing functional. Over the coming weeks we'll port some of the subscriber preview changes and other community fixes to the Google project, and take it from there.

10/26/2007 6:14:56 AM To be technical about it, WORM was already open-source for those that had paid.

;)

I love the idea and understand all of your reasons and think it wise to do this. I know that WORM (coupled with my CodeSmith templates) has saved my clients and I tons of hours and made development enjoyable again.

Now, that said - I have a question: will the version you include in your downloads reflect the latest licensing?

Also, it appears as though Brian has forgotten about this, the Google site he set up doesn't appear to be very active or have anything available for download, and we are coming up on two months since your announcement.

Might be a good idea, once that group *does* start up, to lock these forums down to prevent further posting, so as to help there be "one place" to find information.

Anyway, thanks for the years of help on this product, I know it was a significant factor in many of my projects, personal and professional.

10/26/2007 6:18:32 AM ...continuing...

Also, what about Jeff Lanning's involvement? I love OPath and I know he was planning on adding features to it in the past, but I also know he 'lost that loving feeling' after a while and seems to have moved on as well. Would love to see him finish up some of the original OPath features and add a few others.

 - Jason Bunting

10/29/2007 7:06:47 PM

The Google Code project has all the source code for the 4.2.2.0 release (or whatever release was pre-Subscriber Release), with some small changes (mostly cosmetic) in the SVN repo. The pre-VS2005 project files aren't there because I don't have VS2003 on my workstation any more.

The project is there and waiting for anyone who wants to contribute to it or submit patches to it. So far, not a single person has done so much as contact me about it. If you want to have direct check-in access to the repo, let me know.

10/29/2007 8:10:19 PM Wrong!!! ;-)

I contacted you about a fix, and YOU fixed it!  Only because I didnt dare...

Anyway, thanx for all the hard work Brian setting up the repository and of course for your time saving work on WORW.
10/29/2007 8:46:53 PM Well, there may be code in the subversion repository, but that is not the same as having downloads.

If you go to http://code.google.com/p/wilsonormapper/downloads/list, there is nothing there and I personally feel one shouldn't have to have Subversion installed to get at the code.

I would also like to see it have its own Google Group - I know you (Brian) have something called WilsonORWrapper or something like that, but I think that should be kept completely separate, since it has nothing directly to do with WORM.

Would also love to know what is going to be done to sort through feature requests, assign priority to them, etc. Managing a project like this isn't as easy as simply giving some people the right to check in code, there need to be plans and goals and rules, etc.

Also, I think the thing that is desperately needed before anyone modifies any code is a huge set of unit tests that will ensure any future changes or bug fixes don't break currently-understood and expected behavior. That to me should be the first thing done before any code is modified (including any bugs fixed!).

- Jason Bunting
 
10/30/2007 11:30:49 AM

Jason -- you are more than welcome to do those things directly on the Google Code site. All you need to do is provide me your Google login name and I'll make you a project member.

I also think the Google project should include WORM-related items such as the many CodeSmith templates (yours included). Having all this in one place will only make it easier for people to find useful tools to help in adopting the O/R mapper.

 - b